Thursday, February 4, 2010

THE PT 91M MAIN BATTLE TANK – WAS IT A WORTHY BUY?

An article in Utusan Malaysia Online (Polis & Tentera Column) dated February 3rd 2010 reads, ‘Pendeka PT 91M: Igauan kepada musuh negara’, written by Mohd Asron Mustapha is a must read by officers of the Armoured Corps (for whatever it is worth). If the title is to be translated literally into the English language, it reads, ‘Warrior PT 91M: A frightening nightmare for the nation’s enemy’.

The author is making reference to the Malaysian Army‘s main battle tank (MBT) acquired from Poland, that first came into service with the army in 2007, at a cost that is little known to the public. Reading from the article, Mohd Asron seems to have made the PT 91M appear to be the best MBT in the world, and this to many, is a serious fallacy.

With just 48 MBTs for the entire Malaysia Army, can this really be a ‘frightening nightmare for the nation’s enemy’, as the title of the article seems to suggest? And may I ask - who is the enemy that Mohd Asron is referring to? And let me say this, that if ever the nation is to go to war, it is the crew of the PT 91M that is more worried; not the enemy. The worry is because the ‘assorted systems’ that has been incorporated into the tank, have yet to be tested in battle. I have no qualms that the PT 91M performed reasonably well during the Merdeka Day parade.

The acquisition of the MBT has taken many years to realize before the final choice was made to acquire the Polish manufactured MBT. But why a Polish tank, and not other makes is best known to those who had a hand in making the final decision; rightfully or otherwise. But I do know that there are officers from the Armoured Corps who were dead against the acquisition on grounds that the PT 91M is no better than the T 72 (an earlier version of the PT 91M) that performed poorly during the 1991 Gulf War against the more advanced US M1A1 and the British manufactured Challenger 2 tanks.

In the process of acquiring more information regarding the PT 91M, someone whom I had discussed with regarding the acquisition remarked that, “of all these years, the best armoured vehicle that the Malaysian Army has had in its inventory is the Ferret Scout car. All other armoured vehicles purchased since the 70’s are a total flop”. He went on to say that the PT 91M is a total failure even before it entered service in the Malaysian Army; the major mechanical glitch being the gearing system. And what is even worse is that the Malaysian Army has incorporated a number of foreign manufactured systems (other than Polish) into the tank, and this makes the maintenance of the tank a nightmare for the maintenance crew; besides the exorbitant cost that the army has to bear to maintain these systems. He does not foresee the PT 91M being operational worthy after 10 years of service; where it will finally end up as targets at Asahan Range.

I do not know much about the writer, but he certainly had caused a misconception in the minds of public (other than those in the army), that the PT 91M is truly one of the best MBT in the world. Even if it was acclaimed the best at the point when the acquisition was made, technological advancement will make the tank obsolescence within a few years, as the army does not have the technological know-how to make significant improvements to the tank systems.

If this posting is deemed critical to the army’s acquisition of the PT 91M, I wish to be corrected by those who are physically handling the tank; in this instant officers of the Armoured Corps, and not by some civilian writers who don’t even know the difference between a tank and an Armoured Personnal Carrier.


CRUSADE AGAINST CORRUPTION

39 comments:

Major (Rtd) D.Swami said...

We were always famous for modifications. Remember fitting our Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance, Scorpions, which we called tanks? They were not friggin tanks!!! Instead of the 72 mm guns we fitted them with the 90mm guns. The turret system was not compatible with the hull. Could only fire forward. Coming to the tanks it was a sorry disaster, from the word go. Too many problems. I would not listen too much to Mohd Asron Mustapha, he is just a writer in the race baiting Utusan. Remember this fella, Professor Azmi Hassan — a geostrategist at the Universiti Teknologi Malaysia, another half baked clown. In 1990, David North became the first Western journalist to fly one of the most advanced Soviet aircraft then — the Sukhoi-27. The former United States Navy fighter pilot and editor-in-chief of Aviation Week and Space Technology made a quick assessment: The Su-27 was more comparable to America’s improved performance F-15 Strike Eagle, rather than to the earlier model F-15. Apparently without the privilege of flying one, Professor Azmi Hassan — a geostrategist at the Universiti Teknologi Malaysia — made a similar claim: US-made fighters like the F-5, F-15 and F-16, like those in the Republic of Singapore Air Force, “cannot beat the Su-30”, an advanced variant of the Su-27. Also, the Russian Su-30 is better than the US-made next-generation F-22 Raptor, Azmi wrote in Utusan Malaysia last month. I would not put too much faith in what they write. They write through their posterior.

FMZam said...

Pendeka PT91M: Igauan kepada musuh? Atau sebenarnya hanya sedang dan akan jadi igauan kepada ATM kita? Badan tank tu ialah tank Poland tahun 91, yang lain seperti biasalah adalah hasil ubahsuai otak udang jeneral2 TD kita yang dari dulu memang terkenal dengan propaganda bodoh macam ini.

Si Asron tu dapat upah menulis untuk memperbodohkan siapa kalau bukan rakyat Malaysia sendiri jugalah yang dia boleh bodohkan. Dia pun tak tahu siapa musuh kita, siapa? Singapura?, Indonesia?, Thailand?, Vietnam?, Filipina? Musuh mana yang akan terigau-igau melihat kita ada 48 biji Tank yang modifikasi pun oleh orang Poland, bukan hasil kepakaran rakyat Malaysia sendiri?

Bukan kah lebih baik kalau kita berdiam diri, tak perlu riak dan gah, tak perlu angkuh sombong, tak perlu propaganda, tak perlu tonjol pada orang, yang kita ada Tank buatan Poland yang dunia pun tau apa sebenarnya kemampuan tank jenis itu kalau nak dibandingkan dengan tank2 milik negara2 jiran kita?

Saya rasa si Asron tu tujukan kepada musuh negara, nampaknya yang akan jadi musuh negara kita yang akan terigau dan takut kepada PT91M itu ialah rakyat Malaysia sendiri sebab selepas ini ATM jugalah yang akhirnya akan terigau dengan pembelian tank tersebut, sepertimana pembelian2 tank modified terdahulu.

Dan percayalah dalam masa terdekat ini Kor Armor akan bertambah gah lagi bila tank buruk PT91M akan ditemani dengan pembelian AFV baru 8 X 8 bagi melengkapkan persaraan seorang jeneral.

Sekarang ni berseronoklah jeneral2 semua dengan perlawanan2 golf yang diatur oleh kontraktor2 kroni mereka.......

Capt's Longhouse said...

dato,

,,,for a start, perhaps am bias, but what the Malaysian Army really need is the Attack Helicopters !. Maintained and operationalised by the Army themselves rather than the Air Force.
,,,there are many types of modern attack helicopters available in the market but for our terrain and jungle type of warfare, we only require the the Italian A129Mangusta Attack Helicopter which is fitted with sophisticated navigation and night vision systems that allow it to fly and fight at night and in poor weather. A129 pilots wear helmets featuring the IHADSS system which projects flight, sensor and weapons aiming data onto the helmet's display.

,,Over the years, the A129 has been upgraded with new engines, rotors and the ability to mount a wider range of weapons. This improved version is known as the A129 International and is designed for the export market.
,,,The Italian Army now flies the A129 (CBT) as its main attack helicopter which is similar to the International version but keeps the original Rolls-Royce engines.
,,,its the cheapest yet very effective plus easy to maintain anywhere its operational base be located, even at the open field environment !. Its a bloody hardy chopper and can take any enemy battle tanks and even against fighter aircraft in air to air battles.
,,,It can out manuevour or at par any other types of attack helicopters too in the modern fleets at just 20% of cost in its purchase !.
,,,its really a flying tank for that matter !.

,,,yaa sorry, being an ex-chopper head myself, i might sound bias but i have been monitoring attack helicopters development against battle tanks for the past 30 years or so and indeed, nowadays the Attack Helicopters are a class way above any battle tanks in the market. In fact, tanks are just a pretty target for the boys/girls in the air.

Mej. A R Ramachandran (Retired) said...

Shoulder launched ATGW, attack helicopters as tank killers and both wheeled and tracked 155, 52Cal guns. Mobility,firepower,flexibility in deployment.

Kamal Sanusi said...

Dato'

Frankly speaking, alam tentera skrg ni semakin bercelaru, tak sama macam dulu. Entah aper-aper yg dibuat oleh para pegawai atasan.

Semuanya hanya memikirkan apakah dan berapakah duit yg buleh dibuat sebelum tq bye bye dari perkhidmatan.

Diberitakan pemakian beret menggantikan topi untuk uniform putih Navy. Nampak mcm St. John Ambulance ajer. Baju biru lengan panjang akan digantikan ngan lengan pendek.

CO Inderapura plak diberhentikan dengan keji. Sian kat dia after 30++ years of service, apa pun tak dapat.

I guess no wonder there is no loyalty among armed forces personnel dari LLP hingga ke pegawai atas. Tak terkezut saya bila Zahid Hamidi mengatakan ada info keselamatan yg dibocorkan kepada kedutaan asing di Msia ni.

Tak nampak saya keperluan pertahanan yg bermacam-macam ngan alasan utk pertahanan negara macam nak berperang saja.

What else to be said, KEMENTAH is gold mine for certain people.

F said...

The main problem with the PT-91M is despite all the modifications done, the tank still leaves a lot to be desired as far as armoured protection goes. The ERAWA ERA reportedly only offers protection against HE but not kinetic energy sabot rounds. Another problem is in line with its T-72 linage the PT-91M has a carousel auto loader with leaves the tank highly prone to exploding in event of a penetration, as proven in Chechnya, Iraq and Georgia. I believe the folks at the Amour Directorate are aware of this [unless they haven't been doin their homework] but then again the decision to go for the PT-91M was political. Some of the modifications like the Savan FCS and Vigy panaromic sight actually provide the Pt-91M with a better first hit kill probability and hunter killer capability than other T-72s or even currentT-90s. Prior to the Pt-91 and Adnan, I believe the Ferret was the most well protected AFV in service. Everything else, from the V-150 to the Sibmas and Condor can be penetrated by even 7.62mm armour piercing rounds.

Major S. Swami, I believe the Scorpion in the Malaysian army was actually intended to provide fire support rather than perform its traditional role as a recce vehicle, hence the flawed decision to mount a 90mm Cockerill rather than the 76mm gun.

Fathol said...

I am appalled by developments taking place in the armed forces especially the army. What was supposed to be a sanctuary for professionals has now turned into a brothel for the unsavoury.

Honestly, I don't really know where we're heading to.

When a fish rots it starts from the head. It now looks like the head is so full of rotten characters - generals, colonels, majors notwithstanding.

A once noble profession is now relegated to the bins. Too bad I was once a member of the team.

As for the Polish tanks. You don't need a tank specialist to say otherwise even my humble kow teow goring seller at Hollywood cafe Ipoh can make a more educated guess.

You and I know what craps Utusan Malaysia dishes out daily. It's nothing but an Umno propaganda machine.

WIRA said...

Hello Capt Longhouse,
Kalaulah cuaca ketika bertempur terang benderang (seperti yang disukai oleh sunshine airways kita) memang 'kill ratio' attack heli lebih berkesan daripada senjata lain untuk menangkis kereta kebal. Namun jikalau cuaca buruk dan di waktu malam, the only effective weapon against tanks are tanks period...
Why dont you research the story of the Apache helicopters during the US attack on Serbia.. Duduk atas darataran beb, kerana takut dengan Igla-S buatan Soviet.
Memanglah hang heli pilot bias. Orang armoured corp pun bias juga.
Tapi berbalik kepada Tank TD tu. Memang betul kata Pak Chad yang akan menjadi masaalah ialah transmission systemnya. Baik-baik pakai system semi-auto buatan Rusia, tukar kpd yang automatik.
Mereka dpd Russia mengetawakan Malaysia kerana memilih transmission auto yang hanya sesuai digunakan untuk perbarisan merdeka sahaja (itupu bermasaalah). Di dalam keadaan peperangan yang semestinya memperlihatkan suasana seperti lumpur, pasir dan kadang-kadang salji serta suasana tanak yang berbukit bukau, transmission semi-auto lebih sesuai dan lebih lasak. Yang kelakarny ialah TD (tak tahulah siapa yang membuat keputusan) telah memilih kotak gear jenama Perancis yang kini di buat di Afrika Selatan.(nobody uses this transmission type except for ships) Yang 'indegenous' di dalam tank TD itu hanyalah Chassisnya. Engin di buat oleh Poland, Meriam entah mana, fire-control Perancis... pendek kata tank tu memang macam rojak. Hebat betul TD kita
Dengar kata tank-tank tu diletak di atas lapangan yang tak bertutup kerana ruang bertutup yg dikhaskan untuknya digunakan untuk menyimpan 'bridging equipment' yang berharga beratus-ratus milion tu. Ini cerita umpama'the camel and the Arab' Leborle tank-tank kitatu yop kena hujan dan panas....

WIRA said...

Dear Dato Arshad,
Saudara Kamal's comments on gold mines are spot on. There are only 2Gold mines left in the world. One's located in South Africa and the other at Jalan Padang Tembak.

F said...

Wira, the 125mm gun dari Slovakia. During firing trials with the Savan FCS, it was found the Polish 125mm gun was not accurate enough to be paired with the Savan so the Slovakian gun was chosen. All in all, the modifications done with the FCS and commanders panaromic sight gives the PT-91M a hunter killer cpability lacking on current T-72s and T-90s.

The problem is the inability of the ERAWA ERA to stop Sabot rounds and the lack on a thermal for the commander, and as you mentioned the overheatng problems with the RENK transmission. Like all MBTs, the PT-91M is also vurnerable to top attack munitions like the Spike and Javelin. Another problem is unless decent 125mm rounds are sourced, the PT-91M will have a problem penetrating the Leopard 2 or other western tanks frontally.

matador said...

We should make the correct comparison when dealing with capabilities. Every eqpt has its own ups and downs. In relation to AH vs Tk, Obviously both are excellent in their own ways and I do not intend to dwell in detail of their capabilities. But what is important, we should use contemporary ref when addressing both eqpt that came from different eras as the threat are new. I cannot deny that during WWII, tanks did excellent jobs, as being proven by Rommel and Patton. But if we look at contemporary war, AH proved to be the best as to compare to tank as proven during the Gulf Wars.

Wira argued that AH would be a problem due to wx or at ni. Mind you so do tk and especially with their ltd view sight. Well some argue some tk have TI and other form of ni vision device. So do AH and even better some fitted with decoy. At the end of the day both eqpt intend to dest en capabilities and both are just as important.

Yes, we are not in a state of war but the enemies are imminent. Probably not with other states but other non-states actors. In such the Armed Forces have to be prep for it. Contemporarily, THE WAR proven that even with superior airpower, en still cannot be deminished as being proven in Middle East and Afghanistan. But at the same time, A WAR is just as important and form the basic foundation of soldiers that needs to be maint. In such, the employment of tk should not be forgotten.

Some argue that the technologies in PT91 are about to be obsolete in no time and probably by tommorrow. SINCE WHEN the Armed Forces are capable of being at par with tech? Whatever it is we have, we have to make full adtg of it as we are not a rich country that allocate hundreds of billion in defence.

Regardless of how eqpt and tech being bought, i.e through corruption or honest assessment, the current pers have to exploit it to the best of its capabilities.

The employment of assets also req detail planning and appreciation process done by staffs and should mitigate potential risk to pers and eqpt. So much that AH is grounded due to wx as being argue earlier, tk will also have ltd in neg Malaysian terrein and vegetation and not to mention the enhancement by bad wx would only make tk suitable for Merdeka parade on hard ground.

So much said about both tk and AH. I personally believe that both have their own adtg and disadtg and I personally think we need both for the foundation in prepation of both THE and A WAR.

In relation to how there are acquire, I cannot judge as I do not know.

Try to make full use of what we have, regardless of the state it is in as we cannot change the past. But the future, nobody knows and we can at least, plan for a better one. It is better for a plan to fail than failing to plan coz at least you can mitigate or rectify the failure.

p/s I like what Denzel Washington said in Crimson Tide, "In war, the en is war itself".

Capt's Longhouse said...

guys,

,,,we have to fight in our environment i.e. jungle/estate/city plus lots of swampy areas too, if ever-lah. As an aircrew, i have done many aerial surveys before in make believe anti-tank warfares BUT the conclusion is still on the soldiers on the ground to win the war ! Train and arm our soldiers, no bloody enemy can beat them !. Best is still our Rangers, my salute to their battle spirit since I have operated with them on the frontline. The rest have to play catch-up,I guess ?.
,,,regarding Attack Helicopters, don't go for the American, can't take our environment plus lacking in engine performance. etc etc.
,,,French/Italian or Russian should be seriously considered BUT i would recommend the hardy Italian A129 plus its cheapest to purchase and easy to maintain. Day and Night operationally proven and bloody hell of a fire power to down both aircrafts and tanks. Possible to land and operate from an area as small as a batminton court too.
,,,Its indeed a flying tank, with two crew onboard. But it can also be utilized over the sea, where the enemy would be in the present/future conflicts. Mind you guys, we have to safe guard our offshore assets nowadays cos that is what keeping our country afloot...and many incidents that the general public is not aware of, are happening. Go ask your navy/marine buddies about it.
,,,Anti-piracy ?...no tanks required but juat a few Attack Helicopters to wipe them clean, given my way-lah.
,,,Don't get me wrong, I loves to have some battle tanks too but make sure its working-lah ?.

matador said...

Capt Longhouse,

How about MI 28 Havoc? I think the Havoc is as close as flying tk we can get with armoured cockpit,all wx, day and ni op. Probably a bit old I guess.

F said...

Given that the government can't even afford a replacement for the Nuri at present, any order for attack helis is a very long way off. I believe there are other requirements that should be addressed first. Though ideally the army and not the RMAF should operate the attack helis, as Capt. Longhouse pointed out, inter service rivalry will be the main obstacle here. The RMAF I've been told would like to hand over the troop carrying role to the army while retaining the sexy stuff like CSAR, special forces insertion and the attack helis.

At present, the army neither has the ground infrastructure, the pilots nor an operating budget to support more than the 11 A-109s. Lets just hope the defence planners at MINDEF have been studying the lessons learnt in Iraq wih regards to attack helis.

Capt's Longhouse said...

Matador,

,,,Age is not really an issue cos up-grades are constantly being done with aircrafts. In fact, the older airframes are stronger than latest design due to weight saving measures BUT as an aircrew, we much prefer the heavier models.
,,,The Mi-28N and Kamov Ka-50 are competing to fulfil the Russian Army Aviation requirement for a night-capable anti-tank helicopter, a replacement to the Mi-24 created 25 years ago. The Mi-28N is based on the Mi-28A, a daylight helicopter first flown in December 1982. In comparison with the AH-64D Longbow Apache, the 10,5-ton Mi-28N is some 2.5 tons heavier, partly due to its more powerful cannon. In general the two helicopters have similar flight performance. Two Klimov TV-3-117 engines of 2,200 hp each allow the Russian aircraft to show a maximum level speed of 300 km/h and maximum climb at sea-level of 13.6 meters per second.
,,,but for air to air dog fights btw choppers, the Italian A129 Mangusta AH, could out fool the Mi 28 or the AH-64D Longbow Apache with a well trained and bloody crazy pilot in control. You have to be in one of these killers to appreciate their capabilities !.
,,,am not anti-fighter jets but for future modern warfare plus the enemies we are after, fighters jets are a bloody waste of time. Burning money, if I may say so !. We need killer machines not for LIMA airhows or Merdeka fly pass, again waste of taxs payor money too.
,,,Firstly, I think we should change the 'Top Guns' running the MAF right now, with proper leadership and with some quality gray matters up-stairs too. Am aware and in fact, know most of them unfortunately ! Sorry, I have little to comment on any to-date. Similarly to all the defence ministers that we have had plus the present fellow. They don't have what it takes too !. Semua cari makan type and unless we find some professionals to replace them, we won't progress further, in fact will go downhill.
,,,This is my honest take-lah. Who to blame ?. Guess the bloody politicians should be the prime target for reform/change, b4 we can improve the nation's security.
,,,Perhaps beyond our life time too-lah guys, at the rate things are happening!!. But hopefully, i can train my son and get him to serve in the MAF later ? hahaha.

F said...

Acquiring attack helis will be the easy part. The hard part will be developing a doctrine to suit Malaysia's operating requirements and integrating the attack helicopters with the current force structure, as the Singaporeans have done. Does the army/RMAF use the attack helis as a CAS platform or for interdiction work?

xpara87 said...

Siapakah di MINDEF yang peduli tank mana yang hendak di beli?
Bagi mereka yang dapat commission yang lebih itu yang mereka beli. GOOD OR BAD WHO CARES. bukan mereka yang akan mengendalikan tank tank itu.
sampai bila peg dan LLP di unit unit akan jadi mangsa kerakusan pihak atasan.
Kesian depa yang masih berkhitmat.

matador said...

I think most of us have our valid pt put fwd. I like what F said about priorisation. Indeed AH will enhance our capability and although I love we have that in our inventory but with the current threat perception and tempo, I conclude that AH is NICE TO HAVE at this time but not essential yet. Many other basic neccesities of soldiers need to be add first such as homes, pay etc. The intangible factor of human needs rather than hardware.

As for doctrine, I believe most of the time, the tech we acquire has driven our doctrine and we have to accept the fact that we are not a rich and develop country that can afford to have doctrine driving the tech. Nevertheless with the current tempo, I think we can do with it. We are notlike the Aussie, Brits or the Yanks that have radical doctrine cycle. Within 1 or 2 years, their doctrine changes to meet current ops req. Not just the doctrine but the process of updating it must be robust and sadly I believe until today we have not reach that standard yet.

In any military, we also have to accept the fact of rivalry between services and it does not stops there. Even within the service itself i.e Marine vs Navy, RAMD vs RRD, Pilots vs ground crew etc.. Worst still even units sometime pitting against each other. But at the end of the day, all are working for the same cause and ironically they do work along well when proper doctrine and SOPs being used during ops or ex. At least that was what I saw. We cannot eliminate the rivalry totally as it is just merely more on perception but at the end of the day, mission accomplished and all have a cuppa together. We cannot change the mentality of a person but what we can do is to make amendment to the system that eventually will indirectly gave us what we think is ideal.

Back to the main issue of whether PT91 is a worthy buy, I think it is a non-issue anymore as damage or gain (depending on how ones sees) had been done. If someone feels that it was a damage than at least we provide suggestion to reduce the impacts if not eliminate. If is was a gain, than also suggest how can we make it better in future. Development should not end here. We should be fair not just to ourself by expressing what is ideal to us but we should not forget the org that we used to or still served in, that made us what we are, in becoming a better or worst person.

I am neither a tanky nor a pilot (although I used to spend most of my time in the sky) but I think the PT91 had indeed boost our Armed Forces capability to the next level and will make our en shit their pants, at least within this region.

puaka said...

Tuan2 Semua,

Ramai yang kata PT91M tu memang tak bagus. Pegawai2 Armor pun ramai cakap macam tu. Betul tak skot? Jab Armor tak boleh buat apa-apa sebab keputusan dah dibuat oleh 'godfather' dan kroni-kroninya. Poket mereka dah penuh. Main golf sampai nak muntah. Makan jangan cakaplah. Entah apa2 lagi yang dapat tak tahulah. Mereka ni bukan setakat dapat habuan masa dalam proses nak beli sahaja, malah mereka pun dah siap sedia pasang kaki untuk buat 'after sales service' pula. Bila dapat satu bintang dah rancang untuk bintang seterusnya. Post2 'panas' di MINDEF menjadi rebutan. Di mata mereka dah mula terbayang RM (Ringgit Malaysia). 'Godfather' pula akan letak kroni-kroni di post2 'panas' ini. Rancangan jangka panjang dah siap. Tentukan lepas 'keluar baris' pun masih dapat habuan lagi.

Saya rasa lebih baik belikan 'water tank' untuk kem-kem di Sabah yang selalu tak ada air tu daripada beli tank yang tak guna ni.

Siapa si Asron tu? Dia tahu ke apa benda tank ni? Apa background dia nak tulis pasal eqpt tentera?

EXRMC said...

Hai Semua,

Setakat dengar mereka kata PT91M tu tidak bagus, janganah percaya sangat. Apa-apa peralatan yang sudah dibeli oleh pihak atasan/kerajaan kita kenalah bersyukur, sebab kita dah ada tank. Better than before daripada tak ada. Sekurang-kurangnya kita boleh guna untuk latihan semasa negara kita aman ni.Bila keadaan memerlukan at least we are trained and ready untuk melakasanakan tugas.

Kenapa kita selalu melatah dan terus menuding jari kepada mereka yang terlibat membeli tank tersebut. Kalau betul mereka RASUAH dan ada bukti,lapor saja pada SPRM. Saya juga anti rasuah. Nak hapuskan rasuah ni kita perlu berkerjasama di kalangan bloggers, ahli politik/kerajaan.Insyallah
Corruption can addressed.

Saya setuju dengan komen FMZam.Kalau ya pun kita dah ada tank canggih??? perlukah kita beritahu semua orang atau jiran2 kita. Bukan apa saya hanya kuatir, nanti mereka tu Gelak kat kita sebab mana lah tahu mereka tu mungkin lebih advance daripada kita.

Si Asron tu mungkin menulis based on his reading research about The Tanks. Theoritically he may be right and that is why dia berani tulis pasal PT91M dalam blog ini.

Wsssalam ...

Capt's Longhouse said...

guys,

,,,am sure, our brothers and sisters in the MAF will utilize the tanks to the max. and be prepared for war at all times.
,,,being ex-service, what i can tell everyone, is that we aircerw flys the machine to the limits as per design criteria and to her last minute of operational life span whensoever possible!.
,,,In training flights, we engage the enemy as for real, at times paying our dear lives with it too, as I have lost many of my buddies in time of peace. That is the price we have to pay, once we are in to serve for King and Country. In fact, every sortie is a great risk, you put your life on it !. Just go on a jumpseat ride and you will appreciate its 'life and death' risk profile plus shit brick while at it ?. Frankly, if you are not a brutal fighter, don't be a pilot! Its fly and ready to die spirit !. Or just forget it.
,,,mind you, i have trained not less than 48 aircrews for the Airforce during my time and those that don't fit with that fighting spirit were not winged to fly for the services.
,,,To all present servicemen, just train and be prepared for War. Its your duty. Period !. (forget about politics)
,,,if indeed, there is a War, most of us still able bodies aircrew shall be back in the cockpit, no worries mate !. You can count on us for sure.

EXRMC said...

Ralat

Pembetulan. "Bukan Si Asron tu berani tulis dalam blog ini"

berani tulis dalam Utusan Malaysia Online......

Thanks.

matador said...

Dear All,

Tak perlu risau pasal jiran2 tau keupayaan kite samada si Asron bagitau ataupun tidak. Kalau nak kate keupayaan ketenteraan sesebuah negara, pegi kat Jane's online cfm dapat semua. Kalo tak pun ADJ sentiasa update keupayaan sesebuah negara dan peralatan. So, pasal Asron dedahkan kat Utusan bagi saya is non-issue.

Namun begitu, Security Minded amat penting bagi sesebuah negara, khususnya sebagai anggota keselamatan. Isu ini pula merangkumi skop yang luas. Akan tetapi prestasi security minded ATM pada ketika ini, saya rumuskan sebagai tidak memuaskan.

Kita tidak perlu tgk jauhlah. Contoh mudah dimana kite lihat sesuatu tindakan yang mungkin boleh memberi kemudahan kepada kite, PAS KENDERAAN. Setiap anggota perlu ada pas kenderaan untuk masuk kem tanpa diperiksa kecuali spot check. Implikasi PAS KENDERAAN, pertama any Tom, Dick and Harry boleh buat pas kenderaan sebab bukan dibuat secara kawalan dan tiada ciri-ciri keselamatan. Kedua, kalo unit-unit di sempadan contohnya JB, Kelantan, Perlis dimana sahabat kite sering keluar masuk akan dapat kenal seseorang itu adalah anggota keselamatan. Tu tidak termasuk stiker Skydive lah, Gerakhas lah, Mess with the best, die like the rest lah and etc. Mungkin bagi sesetengah orang tak de pape bende tu. Tapi kalo saya James Bond Singapore ke, Indon ke, Siam ke or mane-mane sekali pun, bende ni jadi sitting duck bagi saya. Saya boleh bug the car, bug the house and so on.

Kite rasakan si Asron telah mendedahkan RAHSIA kite kepada umum? Sebab ape? Bagi saya sebab kite sendiri tidak prihatin. Kalo saya nak bandingkan pengalaman mendidik pegawai dan askar-askar Malaysia, NZ dan Aussie, dalam aspek prihatin tentang kemampuan dan keselamatan, Malaysia paling corot. Jangan kate kemempuan musuh, kemampuan kite sendiri pun tak tau. Bukan tak boleh dapat rujukan mcm kat Jane's, ADJ or staff planning handbook, tapi malas. Sebab tu bile si Asron publish pasal T91 semua melatah sebab sendiri tak tau ape kemampuan kite ada. Jawapan-jawapan bodoh sentiasa kite dgr adalah SECURITY macam detail pembelian Scorpene. Padahal kite sendiri tidak tau ape itu security dan tak tau kemampuan kite serta kemampuan musuh.

Kalo dilihat secara positif pula selepas kite tau semua orang boleh dpat detail PT91 or Scorpene dari kaki lima, kan baik juga rakyat tau kemampuan kite. Sekurang-kurangnya majoriti akan rasa selamat tinggal di Malaysia. Bagus ataupun tidak sesuatu eqpt tu, bergantung pada kemampuan handler. Kalo handler masih berfikiran kalot dan tidak mampu menerima perubahan serta tidak boleh adapt kepada perubahan, maka tak baguslah eqpt tu. Contohnya dari SLR-HK-M16-Styer-M4 ataupun dari apreciation kepada MAP. Guys and gal, THE FLUIDITY OF BATTLE CHANGES EVERY SECOND AND WE MUST BE ABLE TO ADAPT TO THE CHANGES.

Capt's Longhouse said...

Guys,

,,,Its counter-insurgency doctrine that in fact, our MAF military strategist should be on top of, by studying Al-Qaeda's tactical doctrine for insurgency, like its strategic doctrine, since it is the product of more than a quarter-century of adapting U.S. and British doctrine—mostly from each country's Marines and Special Forces—to Muslim culture, and a dedication to learning-from-fighting in guerrilla wars across the Islamic world.
,,,Both doctrines have been reduced to texts written in several languages, and have been distributed in hard-copy manuals and electronic formats across the Islamic world.
,,,For now, al-Qaeda's doctrine is not only its own guiding light, but the doctrine of choice among numerous like-minded Islamic insurgent groups.
,,,lets not wait until its too late. Anti-terrorist and anti-piracy would be the coming national threats that we have to properly managed by the looks of it-lah.
,,,That terrible idealogy is spreading fast across the world as well as to our nation !. Hope the relevant authorities are not blind to it.
,,,safe keeping of our ammo. dumps and explosive chemicals should be properly addressed. No more C4 be made easily available to anybody too. A very very close watch of all military/police assets must be in place.

i rest my case.

F said...

Since there has been mention about the 'rojakness'' of the PT-91 I decided to list the modifications done to the PT-91M to suit the Malaysian army requirements.

[1] Uprated engine and Renk transmission
[2] EADS fast turret and azimuth drive
[3] Mine protected seat for the driver
[4] Webasco aircond
[5] Thales comms
[6] Vigy 15 commanders panaromic sight
[7] Savan 15 FCS
[8] Slovakian 125mm gun
[9] pintle mounted HMG for the commander and co axial MAG 58

Due to budgetary problems, the commander has no thermal imager and the driver and gunnery simulator deal from RUAG has been postponed. The point to take note of, despite its 70's design heritage [the same can be said of the M1A2, Leopard and Challenger] and the lack armoured protection compared heavier western MBTs, with the right ammo and crew training, the PT-91 is a capable MBT.

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komando said...

Dear Folks !

Be reminded that the Government have just settled a leak of Information from the ATM to a foreign neighboring country.

Now all of you are selling - "Top- Sec","Secrets", "Restricted" & "Classified Info" in the Cyber-Space!

Do not give the poor PM and Min Of Defence any more headaches!

Please stop IT !

The crime of TREASON is punishable by HANGING...so do not get yourself HANGED...I am dead serious about this!

NO MORE WARNING !

komando said...

Gold seller? Why come and bugger this blog site..shoooooo

ismeth said...

salam semua..

F..kau le salah sorang pengkhianat tu...yang dedahkan rahsia negara..

........TAAT SETIA.....

ismeth said...

salam semua..

F...habislah kau pas ni...panas bontot...cakap siang pandang-pandang, cakap malam dengar-dengar...

...........TAAT SETIA.........

F said...

Ishmet/taat seti.... semua saya yang tulis dari ''open source''.
TIDAK ADA RAHSIA.....

GGK said...

What is the current doctrin of our armoured core. Non.

Hence the need for an MBT. Should we just get 300 Modern MBT such as the leo? We need a small batch of MBT with modern characteristic such as BMS and FCS to study our own doctrin in our own tropical geographic.

Before this we didnt even have a nucleous of officers and tankees that are experienced in Main Battle Tank. True we do sent our officer for armoured courses all over the world yet not untill now we have the chance to actually test that knowledge, am i right.

You know this.

Why 48? why not 1000?

Why the hell for. A 48 t-72 type tank that have modern FCS and hunter Killer capability are good enough for us to create a combined arms brigade. Or more importantly t trained a nucleus of tankees and officers for a future procurement.

We do have experiment with Kumpulan Tempur Gabungan back tehn although we replce the MBT with Sibmas..the feeling and lesson learned are not the same.

The next time our armed forces receive a jolt in the arm may be you should suggest the right MBT that suitable with our newly developed armoured doctrine.

Untill that time come there are no other comparable tank around us other than the SAF Leo that could threaten the Pendekar. In fact with the FCS and hunter Killer capability they indeed should be worry about this old ructy coffin you hate so much.

The new AFPDS ammo made in bosnia are different from the export version technologies that the poorly trained Iraqi tankee use to shoot at Chobam armored, FCS equiped, MBT the coalition have.

You should know this, i would not comment about this deeper but the test in ex east german tunnel few years ago shows some nice number.

All tank are not Kebal. Even the Challenger II (im sorry there are no Challenger II during first Gulf war sir, you should check your fact) can be penetrated by EFP type penetrator. ... we have a gajjilion of them in our arsenal.

So will the armoured doctrin involving set piece maneuver like in desert battle or will it be an ambush type or infantry support type role? You ask your self that question because it is significantly related to your article.

taat setia

SAF_Tankies said...

From what i read here. You guys are nothing compare to our Leos and AH-64D. You will be sitting ducks. Just prepare you coffin. Sorry guys, thats the fact.

GGK said...

^^^^ did i heard someone fart?

F said...

GGK, as it is, at the moment the PT-91M is the most advanced T-72 variant in service. As I pointed out earlier, the PT-91M operated by a well trained crew, exploiting the terrain, with the right ammo, is more than capable of taking out a heavier, more protected western MBT.

As you pointed out no MBT is ''kebal'', not even heavier tanks like the Challenger. The difference is, a heavier MBT like the Challenger is able to take more damage, e.g, the Challenger 2 in Basra that took 70 RPG-7 hits.
Of course operating an MBT in the weight class of a Challenger 2 or an M1A2 here would be very hard due to weight issues.

F said...

SAF_TANKIES......

Do you have anything of substance to contribute instead of stupid, immature comments? With the right ammo, T-72s and the PT-91M can defeat the Leo 2 frontally.
At the altitude the Apache has to operate in to designate target abd engage targets with its Hellfires and cannon, dont you think perhaps it too can be a ''sitting duck'' to VSHORADS and triple AAA?

SAF_Tankies said...

@ F...
Who are you calling stupid and immature? From all you ppls comments, i think you ppl are, not me....
You ppl are just clowns......

matador said...

SAF TANKIES,

Don worry about them maa.. They talk about corruption not capabilities.. I know you got good tech, but if you scare about rain, tech don do no good ma.. If you want to talk about capability, go somewhere else and maybe you can discuss how to get rid of your CAT 2 and not to be kiasu just because the rain fall on your head maa. Poohh Boohhh!

SAF_Tankies said...

@matador...
LOL...From what i read from this Blog, you ppl are just a bunch of Sour Grapes kiasu Ex Servicemen. (Ex Military OFFICERS to be more specific). We do not need any tech to go againts you ppl, you ppl can be "bought" with the right price....
Poohh Boohhh!